The meeting was called to order at 7:31 P.M.
Plan Commission Members Present: Chairman James Sula, Stephen Park, Sharon Salmons, Gwen Broughton,
Plan Commission Members Absent: David Nordentoft, Richard McFarlane, Patrick Drennan
Other Officials Present: Doug Stiles, Village Attorney; David Ziegler, Community Development Director; Tracy Velkover, Planning Manager; Molly Bacon, Associate Planner
1. Public Hearing: Special Use Permit for Miriam Ramirez (3523 Highland Avenue).
Chairman Sula stated the petitioners are requesting a continuance to the June 17, 2009 Plan Commission Meeting.
Mr. Park made a motion, seconded by Ms. Broughton, to approve the continuance for Miriam Ramirez to the June 17, 2009 Plan Commission Meeting.
2. Public Hearing: Special Use Permit
Associate Planner Molly Bacon said that Mr. Morris Clement is requesting a Special Use Permit to allow motor vehicle sales and service limited to gas, diesel and electric low speed, medium-speed, and global electric vehicles located at the existing Fastlane Lube Masters facility (6280 Grand Avenue). She stated Mr. Clement had previously received a Special Use Permit for the oil change facility in 1995 and this business would continue in addition to the Special Use Permit requested this evening. There will be a total of (10) ten vehicles on display on-site during the same operating hours as Fastlane, which are 8:00AM – 7:00PM Monday thru Saturday and 10:00AM – 5:00PM on Sunday. At the close of each business day the display vehicles would be parked inside the Fastlane facility within the four (4) bays that are available. Mr. Clement is also proposing to potential customers to test drive the display vehicles which would be limited to his property limits and a Fastlane employee would be present in those vehicles during the test drive.
Chairman Sula asked for members of the public who intend on providing testimony or ask questions of the Commission to stand and be sworn in by the Village Attorney.
Mr. Morris Clement owner of Fastlane Lube Masters stated for fourteen (14) years he has provided a good service to the people of Gurnee. He stated that business has been tough for the past two (2) years, as it has for many businesses. He stated he needed something else to generate revenue or go out of business. He came up with an idea and wished to prepare something that was within his skill set. He noted he has been in sales & marketing as a Vice President for A.B. Dick Company and Eidelberg as well as winning many championships in car and motorcycle racing. He noted that he is a mentor for 8 men and has spent a lot of time mentoring these men. He believes that together, with all their talents, they can be successful in the business of low speed vehicles.
Mr. Clement explained low speed vehicles are not golf carts as golf carts are not fast enough and do not have the safety features. He stated they will add value by building a vehicle that will be allowed to be used as a low speed vehicle. He stated they believe they can do this within the terms that Gurnee Mills has stated they must do and they are excited about this new venture. He stated they are asking for dealerships with both EasyGo and Tiger Truck. He stated that Six Flags was nice enough to guide them in the right direction. He said that Fastlane Provides service for a lot of the Six Flags cars and Six Flags stated the best low speed vehicles they have had are from EasyGo and Tiger Truck.
Mr. Clement stated when thinking of gas expense, these vehicles can operate at 1/10 of what persons pay for gas presently. He noted if someone spends $60 per month on gas it would cost $6 per month to operate one of his vehicles.
He stated he wants to be ahead of the curve and generate more business for his company. He stated he wants to get back on the road in an environmentally friendly nature. He noted they are presently environmentally friendly by using all of their own oil for their heating as well as using all the anti-freeze by recycling it into his business. He stated everything that is done at Fastlane is re-cycled and said they want to continue that re-cycling with the use of mostly electric motor vehicles. He noted that they are excited to be entering this business with the hopes that Gurnee will allow this Special Use Permit.
Mr. Clement stated Molly and Tracy have been very helpful through this process. He noted that they have been helpful by looking at this as an overall picture. He said that he will not allow test driving these vehicles except running them on his property and through one of the bays at the Fastlane facility. He stated that Molly and Tracy got him to think about where to display the vehicles in order to ensure safety for his customers and parking for the overall site. He noted that in the process of doing this he has come up with another idea to better display the vehicles. He stated that he just got this idea this morning and can show the Plan Commission tonight. He is only introducing this idea because he feels it is substantially better than what he was proposing.
Chairman Sula stated that if this is part of the proposal in terms of how Mr. Clement’s plans on conducting business then he would like to see it.
Mr. Clement asked if the Commission was familiar with the blueprints he previously provided.
Chairman Sula asked if Staff had seen the blueprints of Mr. Clement’s new idea.
Mr. Clement responded that no one had seen the blueprints for his new idea as it was just done this morning.
Chairman Sula asked if what is on the new papers is the way in which Mr. Clement is proposing to run the business.
Mr. Clement replied yes. He stated he cannot wait to go through a continuance and he is under severe pressure to do what he can to generate business. A continuance basically means that he will have to close his business.
Chairman Sula stated he is uncomfortable that Staff has not seen this new idea nor has the Commission seen it.
Mr. Clement stated this new idea is an easier way to go than what he previously gave the Commission because it results in a safer situation. He stated he has thought out what we previously had submitted and stated this would be an alternative for the Commission to consider. He stated that this new idea is better and less risky.
Chairman Sula stated which ever way that Mr. Clement feels is his best chance of success in how he intends to operate his business is what the Commission will consider. He stated if it is the way of the new idea Mr. Clement has then the Commission and Staff need to see these new blueprints.
Mr. Clement provided copies of the blueprint with his alternate plan to the Commission and to Staff.
Chairman Sula asked for questions from the Commission.
Mr. Park asked for Mr. Clement to walk through why the second plan is better than the first plan and how he plans on operating in reference to employees, visitors, and potential customers.
Mr. Clement responded the first plan called for the display vehicles to be parallel parked in the ten (10) spaces on the east side of his site, which left him four (4) parking spaces for his employees. He stated as his business is a drive-through business he doesn’t have parking issues. Customers drive into the facility and are immediately ushered into a bay. Rarely a vehicle will sit in front of a bay while a vehicle in the bay is being finished. In looking closer at his business and thinking about if he did ever expand and needed to hire several more employees, he determined that he would need to have additional parking spots. Therefore, he came up with the alternate plan, which leaves the ten (10) spaces on the east side of his site for customers and employees, and utilizes the six (6) spaces closer to his building for display spaces. He stated this alternate plan would keep the vehicle displays tucked safely away from the drive aisle in front of the 10 easterly spaces that serves as cross access into the mall. He also noted that the new plan allows the vehicles to be parked and displayed closer to the business allowing him to control it better and not in the way of the traffic driving by.
Mr. Clement apologized as the blueprints were just done this morning and that is why he is providing them just this evening and not earlier.
Mr. Park asked how Mr. Clement operates the Fastlane Lube and how this alternate plan will allow people to come in, enter the facility, exit the facility, and how employees operate (i.e., any interaction).
Mr. Clement responded that cars drive into the bays of his facility. He states they enter off both roads (Grand Avenue and the ring road), circulate to the south end of the building and are directed directly into a service bay.
Mr. Park asks how people will test drive the vehicles if they are to be kept on Mr. Clement’s property, as testified.
Mr. Clement pointed to a plan and showed that vehicles would drive from the south end of the building, along the drive aisle east of the building and to the north side of the building. They would turn around and come back the same route, only in reverse. The vehicles have a very tight turning radius, due to their small size; therefore, there will not be a problem with them turning around on the north side of the building.
Mr. Park verifies the vehicles would be driven on Mr. Clement’s property by doing U turns on the property with no exiting onto the perimeter roads.
Mr. Park also noted that the only potential conflict in doing the test drives as Mr. Clement demonstrated would be with the access drive which is used not just solely by Mr. Clement.
Mr. Park asked why two of the vehicles on display would be on the “backside” (north side) of the Fastlane facility which is toward the ring road, instead of putting all the vehicles on display in one area.
Mr. Clement responded that two vehicles would be placed there so that people waiting in the Fastlane facility lobby would be able to see them on display. The other eight (8) vehicles would be on display together.
Mr. Park mentioned from his reading material a bill that was pending to be passed downstate at the end of May 2009 allowing low speed vehicles to drive on local roads within the State of Illinois.
Mr. Clement stated this bill passed and is therefore law. He further stated there is a law on the books right now which is slightly different than the existing law.
Chairman Sula asked for Staff to address this law.
Ms. Tracy Velkover responded the current law states these vehicles are allowed on local roads of 30 mph or less if a local municipality adopts an ordinance allowing them. Ms. Velkover stated the law that is pending “flips” this and states vehicles are allowed “unless” the municipality enacts an ordinance to prohibit them.
Mr. Park stated he does not have an issue with this. He stated his question is if someone buys one of these vehicles how do they get it home.
Mr. Clement responds he has a trailer.
Mr. Park then verified that the vehicle would have to be trailored to the buyer’s location as the vehicle cannot be driven home via the road as the law stands right now.
Mr. Clement responds that is correct. If a consumer buys a vehicle he will trailer it to their home location with his trailer which can also provide service to the vehicle as well.
Ms. Salmons asks if a driver’s license is required to drive these vehicles.
Mr. Clement responded that not only is a drivers license required but you must have proof of insurance and safety features which include headlights, tail lights, turn signals, horns and mirrors.
Ms. Salmons asks how many parking spots will be taken up with these vehicles, as she disagrees that all Mr. Clement’s traffic will be drive thru, if he is going to be selling these vehicles. She also asked how many parking spots the employees will take up.
Mr. Clement responded that, based on his vehicle display plan presented tonight; he would have ten (10) parking spots for employees and customers. As he stated earlier, customers of the oil change facility do not park; they drive up to a service bay and are directed into a bay. He stated at the moment he has five (5) employees, but that only three (3) drive while two (2) take the bus. That leaves seven (7) parking spaces for customers. If business picked up and he expanded the oil change facility, he would hire an additional two (2) employees, which would still leave five (5) parking spaces for customers.
Ms. Salmons noted if this business were to be booming there still is the potential not to have enough parking spots. Ms. Salmons asked what Mr. Clement is going to look at for overflow parking and for increased use for test driving these vehicles.
Mr. Clement stated that no customer will be trying out these vehicles. He stated that he and his wife are the only persons allowed to test drive these vehicles for customers. He stated he will not trust anybody driving one of these $20,000.00 vehicles.
Ms. Salmons verified that a consumer cannot test drive one of these vehicles prior to purchasing the vehicle.
Mr. Clement stated that is correct.
Ms. Salmons stated she still does not believe that Mr. Clement has enough parking spaces if his business booms and does well with the economy that we have.
Mr. Clement said that he wishes that business booms and they have use the existing parking stalls. He noted that he could do as Red Lobster does and tell his employees that they cannot park in his lot; that they must park elsewhere. However, he said that he cannot do that because of his principles. He stated in fourteen (14) years they have not used more than 3-4parking spaces.
Ms. Salmons commented that you were not selling vehicles before.
Mr. Clement stated when he started this business he was doing 60 (sixty) oils changes a day at Fastlane. He noted that today, they did 18 (eighteen) cars, which you cannot make a living on. Mr. Clement said that he has to do something to change his business but desires to keep his oil change business as he believes he has some very loyal customers.
Chairman Sula stated the Commission needs to consider if low speed vehicles are an acceptable use on the actual site and asked for Mr. Clement to stay on this topic.
Chairman Sula stated his concern with how the entire process works. He stated he is concerned if a customer will be satisfied enough with only having the test drive of the low speed vehicle being driven in a tiny little loop within the parking lot as sufficient proof that a vehicle is right for them. He also stated his concern of getting the vehicles to where they can be utilized. He further stated he cannot think of a worse location for this to be put. He stated it is not attractive to be used outside of Mr. Clement’s property and that it is not in close proximity to a neighborhood where these vehicles would be used. Chairman Sula stated that he struggles with if this is an appropriate use.
Mr. Clement asked if this is a business decision.
Chairman Sula responded yes it is. He stated he also has to consider whether or not this is a special use permit that is compatible with the surrounding area as well as his concerns about these low speed vehicles coming in close proximity with people zipping in/out of Mr. Clement’s existing business.
Mr. Clement responded that the design of the site was done by Mr. Tom Parker of Gurnee Mills. He stated this was done purposely so vehicles can’t go more than 10-15 mph. He stated vehicles go very slow in this area and the area consists of a line where vehicles are to stop at. He noted the traffic in this area is very slow and mentioned he and wife sat there for an entire weekend watching traffic go through their facility. Mr. Clement said it was amazing to him how many people that do drive through this area look and drive slowly. He stated most people go to the White Castle from the hours of
8:00-11:00AM. He stated with the sharp turns through this site people have to drive slowly.
Mr. Clement said the other issue with moving their vehicles closer to the Fastlane building is that it enables visual watch of the vehicles. He notes having the vehicles in the other area prohibits him from seeing the vehicles while in the Fastlane building. He stated they want to be able to see the vehicles and this alternate idea enables him to do so.
Ms. Broughton asks if Mr. Clement will have ten (10) display vehicles parked at his facility at all times.
Mr. Clement responds no. He stated that he’d like to have ten (10) vehicles but suspects he will have 4-5 vehicles initially and perhaps the next month 5-6 vehicles. He stated that as he gets the funds he’d like increase the number of vehicles on the lot, but he indicated he would never exceed 10.
Ms. Broughton asked if there would still be two (2) vehicles on front side of the building.
Mr. Clement responded yes. He noted that the area is beautiful with trees in close proximity. He states four (4) of the display vehicles would be located there and two (2) vehicles located on the front side of the building outside of the lobby area.
He stated he will wait on the other area to park vehicles unless his business is great.
Ms. Broughton asked if this particular area would initially be empty.
Mr. Clement responded probably, as the other area located at the backside of his business is shaded by locus trees and is a nice setting to put the vehicles for people to see. He also stated by utilizing these 2 specific areas traffic coming in from either direction will be able to see the vehicle displays. He noted he can park 6 (six) vehicles inside the building in one bay because the vehicles are small. He stated three (3) vehicles can be parked on either side of the “hole” in the bay.
Chairman Sula verified the vehicles are not wide enough to straddle the pits.
Mr. Clement responded that this is correct. The vehicles are only 4 (four) feet wide and they would be parked on both sides of the pit with 3 vehicles on either side in 1 bay.
Ms Broughton asked if the vehicles would be parked inside at night.
Mr. Clement responded yes.
Chairman Sula stated that some of the vehicles shown in the notes seem to be more open air in nature and asked if it was practical for these vehicles to be stored outdoors ever day throughout the year.
Mr. Clement responded when it is zero outside he doubted that all of the vehicles would be outside. He noted some of the more high powered vehicles can climb mountains and said some people may want to purchase them to ride around in the snow.
Chairman Sula asked what Mr. Clement is proposing as to where would the vehicles be kept on the days when the weather conditions are not appropriate to have the vehicles outside.
Mr. Clement responded he would put the vehicles in Bay # 4. He said 6 vehicles could be in one bay and the other
4 vehicles would be placed within the other bays. He noted he could 6 in the bay and the other four split into two and two located in an area under the roof of the building.
Ms. Broughton asked if there would then be 3 bays for customer use.
Mr. Clement responded yes. He said currently he is using 2 bays. He further noted he hopes to sell many vehicles so that he can provide more jobs for people and still continue to mentor local men.
Chairman Sula asked Staff if the overall development (Gurnee Mills) is governed by a PUD.
Ms. Velkover responded that Gurnee Mills is governed by a Special Use Permit and annexation agreement.
Chairman Sula stated Gurnee Mills is noticeably absent in terms of position on this particular matter.
Ms. Velkover stated she didn’t know if Gurnee Mills was present tonight but they provided the Commission with a written opinion on this matter. Ms. Velkover asked whether Chairman. Sula wanted this letter read or summarized. Chairman Sula stated a summary was appropriate. Ms. Velkover stated that the letter indicates that when Gurnee Mills sold Mr. Clement the Fastlane Lube Master’s site, there was a deed restriction placed on the property. She stated that in Gurnee Mill’s opinion, rendered by their attorney, the deed restrictions would not allow Mr. Clement to use the property as he is proposing tonight with this Special Use request. She stated Gurnee Mills is not in support of Mr. Clement’s proposal.
Chairman Sula asked what standing does Gurnee Mills have on the Commission’s particular deliberations.
Ms. Velkover stated the deed restriction is a private agreement between the Mills and this property owner. She stated this property is governed by a Special Use Permit for a regional shopping center and within the Special Use Permit, vehicle sales and service is a Special Use. The Special Use request is before you for consideration in regard to the standards for a special use.
Mr. Clement asked if he could read a letter on this and make comments.
Mr. Clement stated he has the letter from Gurnee Mills and read specifically what was stated in the letter as follows:
“The restriction and special warranty state guarantor and it’s customers shall be prohibited from using the parking area of the property or any other outdoor area for the servicing of automobile; for the installation of any automotive part or accessory; all such servicing and installation to be exclusively performed in the interior service bays of the improvement; there shall be no overnight parking or storage of automobiles at the property except in guarantor’s service bays.” Mr. Clement stated that he is in agreement with everything that is in this letter. All servicing will be completed inside the facility and cars will be moved inside at night. He stated he doesn’t understand why Gurnee Mills is not reading what he is sending to them. Mr. Clement stated he received this letter this morning and has no problem with what is stated in the letter. He noted that the letter was received from Brandon Ayscue, one of the attorneys for Gurnee Mills.
Chairman Sula opened the floor to the public.
Chairman Sula asked for additional questions or comments from the Plan Commission.
Mr. Park stated he is making one observation regarding the current Special Use Permit for the Gurnee Mills Shopping Center that the Commission is dealing with. Mr. Park stated his personal philosophy is that automotive sales such as this should not be part of a regional shopping center. He stated he doesn’t believe it helps the nature of retail shopping because it is a destination trip, not a comparison shopping trip. He noted people are not going to go to Kohl’s and also go look at a car. He stated absent that comment, the precedent has already been set as part of the Gurnee Mills Special Use, that they have that ability within the overall Gurnee Mills property. In Mr. Park’s approach to this, he has to determine if the use would cause a problem such as traffic circulation or outside maintenance and storage. He stated he has this vision of someone taking a vehicle for a test drive on the ring road and getting into an accident. He stated traffic moves quickly on the ring road at Gurnee Mills.
Mr. Clement states the speed limit on the ring road is 25 mph.
Mr. Park stated his concern is traffic safety and the image and ability to make something benefit the shopping center as opposed to making a detriment. He noted this is how he trying to judge this request. Mr. Park stated normally he would be against the whole concept but he noted that the powers that be, at Village Hall, stated at the time this property was annexed and zoned that vehicle sales and service is acceptable on the property.
Ms. Salmons verified with Mr. Clement that no one except him will take these vehicles for a test drive.
Mr. Clement responded that is correct. He stated it would be either his wife or himself.
Mr. Clement mentioned that very frequently a couple will go to Gurnee Mills and the husband will drop the wife off to shop and while the wife is shopping the husband will bring their car to his facility for an oil change. He also stated that he asked Gurnee Mills for shuttle transportation for his customers to bring them over to the shopping center while his company is servicing the customer’s vehicle. He stated Gurnee Mills turned him down even though he was trying to help Gurnee Mills and help his own business.
Ms. Broughton asked if Mr. Clement will be the only person that test drives and sells the vehicles as well.
Mr. Clement responded right now, yes.
Ms. Broughton then asked if he hired another person to sell the vehicles, would they also be test driving them.
Mr. Clement responded, other people cannot test drive the vehicles. The only other person would be his wife. He noted he would be the only person to sell these vehicles.
Chairman Sula stated Mr. Clement is putting personal conditions on how he is going to operate his business. Chairman Sula stated there is no possible way for the Commission to craft any sort of recommendation or any sort of Special Use Permit that is this personal and be practical to enforce. He stated as a group the Commission has to look at whether or not whether it is feasible and makes sense to have someone demonstrate and test drive one of these vehicles within the constraints that Mr. Clement has proposed. He said that he needs to look at whether test driving the vehicles makes any sense at all. He further stated that in his opinion it does not make sense. He further stated that the site was not designed to have people driving in and out for oil change services as well as making tight maneuvers while test driving these small vehicles. He said the site plan is not designed to do what Mr. Clement is describing.
Chairman Sula stated whether or not Mr. Clement is test driving the vehicles is irrelevant to him as he has to think in terms that anyone with a drivers’ license is going to be driving these vehicles. He stated that the traffic pattern does not make sense.
Mr. Clement asked Chairman Sula what he would prefer he do and asked if he has a better idea.
Chairman Sula responded that he doesn’t believe the site makes sense to do this.
Mr. Clement responded there only are 18 cars a day being serviced at this site; which translates into 1.2 cars per hour.
Chairman Sula responded that unfortunately, that is what it is today given the economy. He stated that Mr. Clement cannot guarantee that business will not pick up to the 60 cars per day that he quoted he used to have at this site. Chairman Sula noted that the Commission has to think in terms of what the site was designed for, which is alot more traffic then currently going through. Chairman Sula stated he has been to Mr. Clement’s establishment when there are more than 1.2 cars per hour and, based on his experience would be uncomfortable with lube customer vehicles zipping in and out while trying to maneuver one of these vehicles for a test drive. He said he doesn’t think this is a practical site for what Mr. Clement is asking.
Mr. Park stated his concern and to remind everyone, that the Commission needs to look at the land and the future owners of this because the property request that is before the Commission runs with the land, not with the owner. Mr. Park stated the Commission has to be concerned about not what is Mr. Clement’s good intentions are and how the Commission can work with him to fabricate this, but also the ultimate use long term for an indefinite period of time.
Ms. Broughton stated, speaking of future, that she is looking at the possibility of the 60 (sixty) cars per day or more with increased traffic in and out of Mr. Clement’s property.
Mr. Parks noted that with the situation of GM & Chrysler, there will not be as many oil changes at the dealers as well.
Mr. Clement stated since he is laid off he is present at his business every day and has to do something with this business to keep it running. He said otherwise he will have to close it down which is not what he wants to do. He stated for anyone to say the property is not right, when he has been there every day for the last five months isn’t right. He stated he is there watching what goes on every day. Mr. Clement stated he was told the Special Use Permit would pertain to him and that if he left the Special Use Permit would have to be obtained by another owner. He noted that is why he said what he could guarantee.
Chariman Sula asked for any other questions from the Commission.
Mr. Park asked for clarification on what type of signs Mr. Clement is requesting for this business. He noted that there is reference to an 8 ½” x 11” piece of paper stating information about the vehicles.
Mr. Clement responded that an 8 ½” x 11” piece of paper listing all the features is all that is needed.
Mr. Park asked if there will be any exterior signs.
Mr. Clement responded no.
Chairman Sula asked for a motion.
Mr. Park moved to forward a favorable recommendation to the Village Board for the property at 6280 Grand Avenue, (Fastlane Lube Masters) to allow an additional use beyond the automotive lubrication center by issuing a Special Use Permit to allow motor vehicles sales and service of low speed and medium speed vehicles regardless of propulsion method, subject to the following conditions:
1) All overnight vehicle storage would be interior to the building;
2) No test drives would be allowed on the property;
3) A maximum of ten (10) vehicles of the low speed and medium speed would be allowed to be displayed outside at any one time on the property per the plan presented this evening;
4) No signs be allowed to advertise this business other than what is specified in the application, which is an
8 ½” x 11” data sheet of paper on the seat of each vehicle; and
5) Hours of operation would be 8:00AM – 7:00PM Monday thru Saturday and 10:00AM – 5:00PM on Sunday
Chairman Sula and Mr. Park asked if this type of vehicle is allowed to be sold on Sundays, as cars are not allowed to be sold on Sundays.
Ms. Velkover stated State law would supersede the special use conditions if these vehicles are not allowed to be sold on Sundays.
Chairman Sula asked Mr. Clement what he would do with the vehicles if he isn’t allowed to sell them on Sundays.
Mr. Clement responded if the vehicles are not allowed to be sold on Sundays that would be alright with him and that he would just have them on display only for Sundays.
Chairman Sula clarified with Mr. Park that the motion included no test driving at all on the property.
Mr. Park responded that is correct and is so because of the safety issue.
Chairman Sula confirmed with Mr. Clement that there would be no test drives allowed.
Mr. Clement stated he is fine with that.
Ms. Broughton moved to second the motion.
Chairman Sula asked for any discussion on the motion and asked for a roll call.
Roll Call
Ayes: Broughton, Park & Salmons
Nays: Sula
Abstain: None
Motion Carried: 3-1-0
Chairman Sula made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Mr. Park to adjourn.
The meeting was adjourned at 8:40 P.M.
Respectfully Submitted:
Joanne Havenhill
Plan Commission Secretary